On September 1, 2024, Dr. David A. Hoag became the eighth president of the Council for Christian Colleges & Universities. This spring, he sat down with Dr. Todd C. Ream, professor of humanities, executive director of faculty research and scholarship, and senior fellow for programming for the Lumen Research Institute at Indiana Wesleyan University. Dr. Ream also serves as the senior fellow for public engagement at the CCCU and the publisher of Christian Scholar’s Review, where he hosts the weekly “Saturdays at Seven” conversation series with Christian thought leaders.

In their discussion, Dr. Hoag and Dr. Ream discussed the integration of faith and learning, vocation, and the opportunities and challenges facing Christian higher education today. Below is an excerpt of the discussion, edited for length and style. You can listen to their full conversation on the Christian Scholars Review website.

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Todd Ream: Welcome to Saturdays at Seven, Christian Scholar’s Review’s conversation series with thought leaders about the academic vocation and the relationship that vocation shares with the Church. Our guest is David Hoag, President of the Council for Christian Colleges & Universities. Thank you for joining us.

David Hoag: Honored to be with you today.

Ream: The integration of faith and learning is a practice that is definitive of Christian higher education, and while different Christian traditions or denominations approach this practice in various ways, almost all CCCU campuses contend that the integration of faith and learning is a hallmark of the education they offer. As the president of the CCCU, what is your assessment of efforts being made currently across the landscape when it comes to the integration of faith and learning?

Hoag: As we look at the CCCU, we represent 28 different denominations. So, you hit it right when you said there are going to be different ways in which we look at faith and learning and how we integrate that.

For such a time as this, it’s so important for our schools to have a strong biblical worldview. With so much that is happening in our country and in our world right now, we really need to double down on this area. Because of that, this is one of our priorities now: how do we work with this next generation to integrate their faith in their discipline? They know their discipline, but they don’t necessarily know how to integrate their faith in the work that they do.

There are great examples of what’s happening at many of our institutions—at Baylor and Calvin and Missouri Baptist, Colorado Christian, Wheaton, Charleston Southern, the list just goes on. Many of them have different faith symposiums that they actually have on their campuses, but I want to make sure that the CCCU takes a leadership role in this whole area of faith integration.

Ream: One of the first decisions you made as president of the CCCU was to create a program that leads efforts related to faith integration. In particular, you appointed John Addleman, who formally served as chief of staff for the CCCU, as the director of faith integration and program evaluation. In what ways do you envision the CCCU then can be of service to member institutions in such a capacity?

Hoag: Before I entered this role of president, I was a board member of the CCCU. We went through this strategic planning process, and time and time again, we kept seeing the importance of faith integration needing to be a big part of what we do. In addition, in my first three months on the job, we did a member survey and [our members] love the advocacy work that we do. They love the leadership development work we do. They love the communication. But there was a deep desire for us to take a greater role in faith integration.

John has an M.Div. from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (TEDS), and so he studied theology. But the other great perspective with John is that he’s been a [special assistant to the president] at one of our schools. He has also been very involved in faculty development, and so he knows how to bring groups of people together. John has been a great person to get things started with us.

We’re going to have two different kinds of advisory committees. The first one deals with this kind of mission self-study because we want to look at the unique, theological perspectives of our missions.

And, for instance, one of the things that I’m seeing is schools that are doubling down on their Christian mission are doing very well from an enrollment perspective. So I think there’s going to be some great work that that committee can work on as they look at that piece.

The other advisory group is going to take a look at faith integration. I want to be able to pick from some of the best minds across our 150 schools in the United States as we get after faith integration in this work, because it’s so important.

Ream: You mentioned the importance of collaboration between institutions when it comes to faith integration and probably also in relation to a myriad of other efforts that are being led. But what are your hopes in the months and years ahead for programmatic efforts focused on fostering these kinds of relationships as schools work with one another, but also work with one another through the CCCU?

Hoag: I think collaboration in this area is going to be so important as we look at this comprehensively. Some schools are doing it really well, so by having great collaboration, they’re going to be able to share what’s working on their campus and, in a sense, help those that are still trying to figure it out.

I’m hopeful that right here in Washington, D.C., we can convene some gatherings of faculty from across the CCCU. I envision doing some things possibly with the Museum of the Bible, because they’re right here, they’re less than a mile away from our offices. I’m hopeful that between the great work that’s happening in faith integration at other schools across our network and the collaboration of these advisory teams, we can come up with some great programs in this area.

Ream: I want to transition now to asking you about your own vocational discernment. You earned an undergraduate degree in education from Asbury College, now Asbury University, a graduate degree in education from the University of Kentucky, and then a doctorate in education from Saint Louis University. At what point did you discern that education would prove central to how you were called to exercise your vocation?

Hoag: It would have been [during my] time as a student at Asbury. I had incredible mentors and faculty and coaches that invested in me. I went right from graduating from Asbury to Kentucky for my master’s, but I came right back to Asbury to serve, and I worked there nine years. Later on, I continued my career at a few other of our Christian colleges and universities. But it was that undergraduate experience that made the difference for me.

Ream: Are there any authors in particular who also shaped your sense of vocation as an educator and/or perhaps to whom you turned for continued resourcing?

Hoag: Several. Especially as I look at leadership, Robert Birnbaum has a book called How Colleges Work, and I studied that book in graduate school. I can’t tell you how many copies I have given to aspiring academic leaders because one of the things Birnbaum looks at is the different types of schools. I think it’s really important to understand the different types of schools—how they work and how they operate. And I think one has to reflect on their own strengths and abilities because that will help drive where you may fit better.

Ream: I want to ask you now about some of those other institutions where you served and how they shaped your sense of vocation. You mentioned Asbury which we talked about, but also Greenville University, Trinity International, and then Warner Pacific. What experiences from those institutions prove critical in terms of how your vocation and sense of understanding of it evolved?

Hoag: Well, when I went to Greenville, I was the vice president for advancement. On my vocational journey—it’s been kind of interesting, Todd. I’ve kind of been at places that needed to be fixed, or they were struggling a little bit financially. When I started at Greenville, they were a few weeks away from not making payroll, and I had never been at a place that had experienced challenges like that.

It helped me develop on the business side, and that got me going on my academic research at Saint Louis University. I looked at the evaluation process of college presidents, but I also looked at higher ed finance. During [my] 13 years at Greenville, I was able to really learn how the financial side of the institution works and ways that you can get better financially. We were very fortunate to have some record years in giving.

Now, I thought after I was at Greenville, I knew everything about higher ed because I had this degree in higher education from Saint Louis University, and then I went to Trinity International University, which has TEDS, a graduate school, a law school in California, campuses in South Chicago, Deerfield, and Miami, Florida. Oh, my goodness, I learned a ton during that time.

Then I was able to serve at Warner University in Florida. I really feel that I was prepared for that journey because of an experience I had at Greenville. I was able to be interim president when the president went on sabbatical—that would’ve been probably during the early 2000s, when my wife and I were able to experience what that was like. We knew at some point that we might be called to be a president of one of our institutions, and we had an incredible time at Warner, eight incredible years. I learned a lot. I loved the student experience, loved the faith development part of what you do with students there.

Again, a wonderful opportunity to serve at the four different Christian colleges that I’ve served at.

Ream: For individuals discerning whether they’re also being called to serve as a president, what advice would you offer?

Hoag: One of my mentors said, “David, do you like roller coasters?” When you are looking at the role of the presidency, it is like a roller coaster.

You get on daily and you hear the click, click, click as you’re going up because you don’t know what the day is going to bring. You’re going to have some incredible mountaintop experiences of God at work through a great gift that came through or a faculty recognition, followed by a challenge—something happens with a staff member or a student.

I like to [tell] people that are possibly pursuing the presidency [that] you really need to be called and have the passion, because you can’t make up the different experiences that you’re going to have on a regular basis.

Ream: In what ways did the university presidency change over the course of your tenure at Warner? And for individuals who are discerning a call to the presidency, in what ways could you estimate it might change over the course of at least the early phases of their tenure?

Hoag: I’ll call it pre-pandemic and post-pandemic. You know, it was always kind of challenging, but I think what the pandemic did was it accentuated some of the financial strain that some of our schools are having.

We’re in a really challenging advocacy environment. One of the things that we do here at the CCCU is advocacy work. We want to make sure that our religious liberties are protected, but also our student funding. The challenges as a president right now—you have some government intervention and you have maybe decreased funding from the federal side.

Ream: In the first six months or so in office that you’ve experienced to date, how many campuses have you had the chance to visit, and what have you learned through those visits on the ground?

Hoag: I have been privileged to be on over 20 campuses. In addition to the 20 campuses, I’ve met with several boards of trustees at their different retreats. One of the things that is so encouraging to me is that the schools that are doubling down on Jesus and their Christian mission, they are just thriving.

So I say to our schools, the first thing you need to do if you’re struggling is focus on that Christian mission and execute that, because I think you’re going to find things are going to get much better. I’m encouraged to see what’s happening in that space.

I’m encouraged to see what’s happening in the lives of our students. Transformation is taking place. They’re going out and doing incredible things. Those interactions with faculty, staff, and students are unbelievable.

I went to visit [the CCCU’s Scholarship and Christianity in Oxford program]. Imagine this: imagine 35 of the smartest kids from across our network of schools and hearing from them what they’re studying in Oxford. I was just blown away because they’re studying something that’s really significant, but they’re integrating their faith in that European educational model. It’s really powerful just to see what’s happening there.

Ream: In addition to mission, faith learning integration, and advocacy, things that we’ve talked about in terms of what the CCCU does, are there any other programs or efforts that you might want to highlight for us?

Hoag: I was just able to be at the Multi-Academic Conference in Atlanta. We had 500 leaders and potential leaders from campuses all over the United States. This would be vice presidents, deans, directors, aspiring deans, or aspiring VPs.

We had some plenary tracks that pull[ed] things together, and then on top of that, [attendees] were able to have tracks within their discipline. So you had advancement, you had campus ministry, evangelism, student life, and the list goes on. I was just so encouraged to see the leaders that we’re developing through programs like that.

Fast forward, next January 29th to February 1st, we’re going to have our International Forum, and it’s going to be [the CCCU’s] 50th year. It’s going to be biblical jubilee to celebrate Christian higher education. That’s going to be a great gathering, and I’m looking forward to that.

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Dr. Todd C. Ream is professor of humanities, executive director of faculty research and scholarship, and senior fellow for programming for the Lumen Research Institute at Indiana Wesleyan University. He also serves as the senior fellow for public engagement at the CCCU, as the publisher of Christian Scholar’s Review and serves as the host of the weekly “Saturdays at Seven” podcast.